Episode Transcript
Don (00:00)
different. Yeah. Okay.
Rob (00:00)
If it's carbonated, I'm all for actually,
actually, this is a great point. If it's carbonated, I hate drinking it out of plastic and I have to drink it out of aluminum. Like you ever buy ⁓ like a plastic bottle of Coca Cola? No one likes that. So yeah, so I, but I file anything carbonated has to be in aluminum.
Don (00:11)
like a 20 ounce bottle of something. Yeah, it sucks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alright, episode 162. We're back, Rob. We are back. No, no, they're just numbers. Like we said last time, they're just numbers for us. ⁓ Well, what let's just jump right into it. ⁓ Because we're busy, we got things to do and everybody listening to this is busy and they've got things to do too, you know. ⁓
Rob (00:46)
162, not a whole lot exciting about that number.
And more importantly,
everybody's chomping at the bit to hear what we're going to talk.
Don (01:04)
Absolutely. So what is today's topic, my friend?
Rob (01:08)
I thought we would talk about, ⁓ packaging trends, right? had an interesting packaging experience, ⁓ the other day and it made me, it made me sort of think about this and think about how packaging has changed and evolved and where it potentially go in the future.
Don (01:14)
Packaging trends, OK?
Yeah, well, we talked a little bit about that restaurant down the street to muchacho, right? How they had some cool, they had some cool to go packaging and things like that, and just sort of the vibe of the brand. But but you had another packaging experience is what you're telling me. Okay.
Rob (01:31)
Yeah, we did.
They had, yep.
I did. I did.
So, and this was kind of interesting. So, well, I thought it was interesting. So I ordered a pair of shoes. Okay.
Don (01:49)
Okay,
all right, I'm down with it.
Rob (01:53)
That's it. That's the end of the story. Now I ordered this was this was probably it's important when I ordered the shoes. I ordered the shoes probably. I don't know, four, four, three months ago, three or four months ago. OK, all right. And it's a pair of golf shoes, OK, new golf shoes. And I ordered them from a company called G4. OK, GFOR, if you're if you're curious and want to look it up.
Don (01:55)
OK, great shoes. Did let me ask you this. Did they come in a box?
Whoa. Okay. All right.
Okay, got it. Okay.
I like it.
Rob (02:23)
And they are, ⁓ they're not inexpensive golf shoes, right? I think they're, I think, I'm not afraid to say it. I think the pair I bought was a little over 200 bucks for this shoe. Yeah, well, it's gonna make me a better golfer. So this is important. ⁓ So anyway, I bought the pair of shoes. I've never owned anything from this company before. So this was a new experience, a new brand introduction for me.
Don (02:34)
Okay, that's a treat yourself shoe is what that is. Yeah. Of course it is. Yeah, yeah.
Okay. Got it.
Rob (02:52)
But I've always liked their stuff. I bit the bullet, I ordered the shoes and the shoes arrived ⁓ in a box, a shoe box, if you will. ⁓ And the box was, the whole experience of opening the shoes and revealing the shoes was pretty amazing, just from a packaging experience. Because the front, wasn't a traditional shoe box. ⁓ The front was that magnetic enclosure that everybody, that's a trend, certainly is magnetic enclosures. And the trend I'm...
Don (02:59)
Okay. In a shoe box. Okay. All right.
Mm Okay. Awesome.
Yeah. Sure. Sure.
Rob (03:21)
I'm happy to be a part of, because it's great.
Don (03:22)
I think
it's fun. has a sophisticated feel to it for sure.
Rob (03:24)
It
absolutely does. So shoe box, you open it up and then it's just a great presentation. The shoes are there, there's like a nice thank you card on top. And then they included a little ball marker, right? So a little gift ball marker that was kind of inset into this thank you card for the shoes. so, and that was it. I mean, that was it for the shoes. Well.
Don (03:35)
Okay, interesting.
Yeah. Okay.
Rob (03:51)
The box, I remember standing there and I was opening in the kitchen and my wife was standing there and I was like, I remember going, ⁓ hey, look at these cool shoes. And then immediately putting the shoes down and going, but look at this, but look at the box they came in. Like, look how amazing this is and look how like, this is like a nice box.
Don (04:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob (04:13)
And so from there, I was like, I'm not, and I literally said out loud, I'm not gonna throw this box away. Like I can use, I can use this box. This is a great, like, and she kind of looked at me like I was crazy. She's like, do we need another shoe box? I was like, no, look at the box, babe. ⁓ Anyway, fast forward to this past weekend and a little spring cleaning. I was cleaning out my closet and I finally, and there was the box. The box has been sitting in my closet for,
Don (04:19)
Yeah, you can't throw the box away. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Rob (04:43)
three, four months. And I finally was like, I had a conversation with myself. I was like, and I'm not, I'm not a hoarder by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a whore. And I was like, I wrestled for a good three or four minutes as to whether or not I should throw away this box knowing full well, I'm not going to use the box. Um, and I, and I, and so I did, I'm sad to say I threw out the box. threw out the box. But the point of the story is,
Don (04:44)
Okay.
What do I do? Sure. I will second that.
Yeah.
for God.
Rob (05:14)
The shoes are great. I love the shoes, but this box was of such great quality and cool design that I didn't throw out a simple shoe box. It took me four months to throw it out. I guess the takeaway there is, and it's obviously scalable on price point. If you pay a lot for something, you expect a better brand experience, right? Out of the gate.
Don (05:19)
Interesting.
Sure. Sure. Yeah, this is
the anti DSW where it's like crumpled horrible boxes that are just out on the floor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 16 other people have tried that shoe on before you decided to pull it out of the shelf. It's all cattywampus and crappy and like you are throwing away that box immediately if you choose to buy one of those shoes.
Rob (05:42)
Maybe there's tissue paper in there, maybe there's not. ⁓
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad you said that about DSW shoe boxes because I'm going to do a quick little tangent and ask you a question. Have you seen their new spots? OK, so the quick overview DSW for those who don't know is the call it discount shoe store. They have all different brands. It's like shoe warehouse. Yeah, that's right. There's a new spot and it is it is this woman. She's very excited about shoes and there are.
Don (06:02)
Okay. Sure.
No.
Let's count Shoe Warehouse, I think is what they're called, right? Yeah, yeah.
Rob (06:28)
shoeboxes all over the ground. And at one point in the spot towards the beginning, she's hopping from shoebox to shoebox. Almost like you would walk on like stones across a creek or something, right? Or like hopscotch kind of thing.
Don (06:37)
Okay.
Okay, got it, got it. Yeah, yeah. Okay,
okay, got it, I'm with you.
Rob (06:47)
All I can think to myself every time I see the spot. The shoeboxes would crumble like there's no way like. It wouldn't work and I cannot watch the spot and you haven't seen it so so you can't weigh in, but I'm like no no no. The shoeboxes would.
Don (06:52)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
without thinking that thought.
Yeah, I mean, they're Nike boxes, they're Meryl boxes, they're Puma boxes, they're all the things, but they are, I feel like they are of lesser quality. Maybe that's not the fact, but like, they're just crumple, but also that's their thing. It's like going to Costco or BJ's or Sam's, know, it's like, yeah, it's sitting there on a pallet. You know I mean? it's, yeah.
Rob (07:06)
Yeah.
But it's not
a suspend your disbelief spot, like, we're riding on a unicorn and we're doing magical things or whatever. It's like just a woman dancing around, but I'm like, no, no, no, no, that would never work. And that's all I can think about. I bet I could stand on the G4 box. I bet I could stand on the G4 box.
Don (07:29)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that would not those those crappy little boxes would not hold the way. Yeah. That's
fancy. So so what did you do? Did you pitch the G4 box? You did? Yeah, yeah.
Rob (07:43)
Go on, throw it out.
I'm not happy about it.
Don (07:48)
You should have taken a video of it, take a picture of it, you know, then you'll always have a...
Rob (07:52)
But I think the,
so the trend is, and as I mentioned, I will get back to the subject. As I mentioned, it's scalable, obviously based on price point. And the more you pay, the more premium you expect the overall experience to be starting with the packaging, because that's often your first experience with the brand as we've talked about.
Don (08:05)
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this is not that similar to the iPhone, right? Where it's like, they put time and effort in to make sure that like, it slides out a certain method perfectly and there's inserts and like the way that it's all Apple packaging is made a very specific way, so. yeah, yeah. Well, just the magnet enclosure, that little click, I mean, I'm a sucker for that, I love that, but.
Rob (08:17)
Perfectly. Perfectly. Yeah.
And it's expensive. mean, if somebody puts some serious, serious money into the packaging.
Wow.
Don (08:34)
We've got one client that still uses that, and I love it. So,
Rob (08:38)
the magnetic packaging. Well,
we did that for a ReaJet years and years and years and years ago. That's right. It was the Leatherman. It was the Leatherman tool with the front end box. But I think another trend that I'm seeing and what they did was, what G4 did was they included the little G4 logo ball marker, right?
Don (08:42)
We did, we did that right on the front end of the, exactly. We're trendsetters. I do remember that, I do remember that. Vivec still uses it.
Rob (09:01)
So oftentimes there's something in there to keep you engaged with the brand on a longer term basis, right? So I think that's probably a trend that we're seeing.
Don (09:06)
Yeah. Supplemental. Yeah.
Yeah, more and more, even when you buy from a specialty online retailer of some sort, like at the bare minimum, they're throwing in a couple of stickers, right? Because you're going to stick it on this thing, you know what I mean? They're trying to do the salt life approach where suddenly all of a sudden everybody's got salt flight stickers on their cars and trucks, you know, 10 years ago, right? And it was like, where did this come from? What even is this? So everybody's sending you stickers no matter what. That's kind of a...
Rob (09:24)
yeah. yeah.
Yeah.
Right, that's right.
Don (09:43)
You know vans vans used to do that. I mean, I feel like back in the 80s speaking of shoes though. Yeah, I'll that little off the wall with the skateboard and I feel like I feel like vans was doing that in the 80s. Maybe I'm wrong on that one, but I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of stickers.
Rob (09:47)
of Van off the wall stickers.
yeah.
No, I think they were because those stickers were everywhere. I do do recall that. So I think,
you know, I think I think the the the brands are starting to not starting to but are really embracing how important that first engagement is with and they do that through packaging. Right. ⁓ Sonos does a really good job of now, again, it's a high end product, ⁓ but their packaging is absolutely phenomenal, ⁓ I would say. ⁓
Don (10:12)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Rob (10:25)
What's another one that I've experienced recently? ⁓ so I take that, ⁓ I take that supplement ⁓ AG1. You're familiar with AG1? So I take that stuff. Now, does it work? Does it do anything? I have no idea. But the brand, but the brand sold me, right? I read lots of things that sound really great about it. And when they send you, when you get the first ⁓ order,
Don (10:37)
I am familiar with AG1, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Rob (10:54)
you get an amazing box. And in the box is the pouch for the actual supplement, the powder. And it's a really well done, it's like soft touch. It's like a soft touch resealable pouch. It's really, really well done. And it better be, because they charge you a lot for this stuff. And then you get a bottle, right? Like a little, I don't have it here, but like a little water, clear water bottle. It's branded AG1, right? And that's your,
Don (11:00)
Mm-hmm. Sure. Sure.
huh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nice.
Okay. Or you can mix your stuff.
Rob (11:23)
That's your keepsake and you mix your
Don (11:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob (11:24)
drink up in there. ⁓ You get the scooper, right? You get your little scooper. And so they're all laid out differently. And it's just a really nice, it's a really nice presentation, right? And that's where, you know, in that one, it's interesting because the part of the packaging, it becomes the product, right? So the bottle that you keep with you, not a supplement for someone's sake. It's just, it's there and you use it every day just to remind you, hey, and to let everyone else know.
Don (11:27)
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
Rob (11:52)
Look
how fit and lean and healthy I am.
Don (11:54)
Yeah,
looking handsome. No, but using the accoutrement of things that came in that box, which is exciting. So I think if we're talking about brands, I will say a brand that I just ⁓ purchased some from, but kind of more on the industrial side of packaging, not necessarily consumer packaging, like I'm picking things up in a grocery store or an environment like that would be Thuma of all places. Like Thuma started with the beds, right? ⁓ You're familiar with Thuma, right? Okay.
Rob (11:59)
That's right. That's right.
Yeah. I was about to say, I'm
not very familiar with humor. Okay.
Don (12:23)
It's th uma and they they
kind of brought the Japanese like nectar and Casper everybody does it now but it's like the bed frame that you assemble with no tools no nothing and everything just kind of slots together and it's a Japanese Japanese kind of inspired masonry right where it's like hey here's six pieces of wood and like Lincoln log and you're done you know that type of thing right
Rob (12:36)
it's just like, okay, gotcha.
And then you're done.
Don (12:45)
So years and years and years ago, got a film. And now they've taken over the whole house, right? You can get bookshelves, nightstand. I mean, they've got all the different furnitures outside of. But if you go to, we originally bought a new dresser and you buy the dresser by drawer. And it's totally like customizable. Do you want a two by three or a three by three? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob (12:53)
Okay.
What do mean you buy it by drawer like you start with the drawer design is that is that what you mean?
Don (13:15)
drawers do you want your dresser to be? And they will ship you five drawers, they will ship you, you know, six drawers, 11, like, like what you know, like, like, it's totally customizable to your configuration, right? Well, what's interesting about the packaging is, from an industrial design perspective, it's like Apple, but in the cardboard, like meant to be broken down recycling scenario, I wish I could show you, you know, the boxes, you because they come via UPS, and they get beat to hell.
Rob (13:17)
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Don (13:44)
right? But this really, really nice, expensive piece of furniture is inside of it, right? But the outside packaging is your cardboard industrial design meant it's a self shipper. It's meant to be B. It's not like Apple where you get the cardboard box and then the nice white boxes inside. No, but they but the packaging is so nice. You're gonna think this I'm crazy for doing this. ⁓ I am definitely more of a hoarder than you are. I'm like, gotta hold on to that. I might need that. And if you know,
Rob (13:45)
Yeah, right.
It's not the box within the box, right? Right.
Yeah, that is absolutely
true.
Don (14:10)
Yeah, that piece of wood, I might use that piece of wood at some point. You know what I mean? Those packing peanuts, right? mean, hey, yeah, yeah, bent rusty nail. probably I'm probably thrown away. But ⁓ anyway, these boxes, I mean, they're huge, dude. I mean, the dresser, I mean, you know, I had tons and tons and tons of these boxes. There's no way to like, easily break these things down because they're meant they're meant to withstand, you know, like a tank driving over. It's unbelievable. These boxes, right?
Rob (14:16)
Bent nail, bent rusty nail, you never know.
Don (14:40)
So I put them on Facebook Marketplace as like, hey, these are arguably the greatest moving boxes ever. And people absolutely came and there was this woman that came and was like, yeah, I'm moving to Denmark or whatever. ⁓ These will totally withstand like the shipping container and the this and that. And it was like, boxes so good. They're just industrial boxes, but boxes so well constructed that it's like, I can't just break these things down and reset. Someone can use this thing is kind of what I felt like.
Rob (14:46)
Yeah.
How many boxes were
there?
Don (15:09)
dude. Well, I bought a lot. I bought a lot of these drawers. I I did, you know, ⁓ I did a three by three. So I've got nine. I had nine of those boxes and then we use them for nightstands as well because it all matched or whatever that. ⁓ And so we had we had a lot of boxes and they're heavy and they're heavy. But but that's really more just on the industrial design side of life, you know, which I still think is important because yeah, no. But in today, you know, we don't
Rob (15:12)
You
It's still packaging.
Don (15:37)
We don't always go to a store and buy things now, right? We kind of do all of our researching online. We do our snooping and review checking, and then we end up buying it online without really seeing it, right? So when UPS drops it off at your front door, that is the package, right? And they always have fun little headlines, a little messaging on it, and kind of the box is the instruction, but it's like, open this first and open this flap. It's very kind of whimsical, if that makes sense. ⁓
Rob (15:54)
That's right.
Yeah.
Don (16:07)
you that is the impression you know like they don't have retail packaging they have you know self shipping packaging that type of thing so yeah now it's it's a cool brand Thuma is a pretty cool brand it's it's ⁓ you know it's furniture it's not necessarily the cheapest thing kind of like what you're mentioning with some of the other brands but ⁓
Rob (16:13)
Right. Right.
Yeah, yeah, well, I was
gonna ask, it like high-end, like, is it like high-end furniture? I mean, are we mid-tier? I mean, we're gonna go look it up, of course, but yeah, yeah.
Don (16:28)
Yeah, It's mid tier. Yeah, no, it's it's it's mid tier. It's a mid tier, you know,
they're pretty nice dressers. I mean, they got the soft clothes and all the stuff. It's a pretty good brand. You know, they've got I think they have two showrooms one now in San Francisco and one in New York, think, where you can go but it's really more of an online, online specialty retailer for furniture.
Rob (16:39)
I do love soft clothes.
Okay.
Yeah, it sounds
like a Joybird type situation, right? You order, I want these legs, I want this color, I want this cushion configuration, which is a trend in and of itself, custom design furniture that you can do.
Don (16:56)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want maple? Yeah, it's
do you want maple? Do you want walnut? Do you want cherry? Like what do you want? You know that type of thing, right? Yeah, I mean they have like a $400 dog bed. You know, it's like I mean it's yeah, there's some stuff in there. You're like what? This is crazy, you know, but I mean, I don't know. I actually I really like their stuff so it worked really well for us, but.
Rob (17:09)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Don (17:24)
But I think, since we're speaking brands, that's a brand, right, from the industrial perspective. I think what's tough now in today's day and age as it relates to packaging is, I'm just gonna call it the supply chain factor, right? If you are a bigger brand, like we're talking about, and you can do specialty things, and you can withstand 90 days of manufacturing potentially somewhere else, like Apple does, right, and shipping and transit and things like that, right?
then you can truly be unique, right? You can custom match your plastics or your bottles or your whatever you need, right? To your specific brand colors. And you can go as crazy as you wanna go, right? Or you're stuck with, hey, here's what's domestic, low quality, not low quality, low quantity, excuse me. And you kinda, do you want it black or do you want it white or clear?
Rob (18:00)
Yeah.
Don (18:17)
You know what mean? there's only, so then it's kind of, there's that fork in the road, I think, right, from a packaging perspective of true custom and uniqueness, right, versus what's readily available in lower quantities, and then how do you maximize that, you know?
Rob (18:32)
Correct.
I think if I were to do like, here's a 180 degree point of view ⁓ is a trend being don't change a thing, right? So if we think about, ⁓ you know, less expensive things, I think specifically of like, and we've talked about these examples before, but like, you know, let's call it, let's call it, you know, Tropicana.
Right? And when they changed their classic packaging and there was a revolt, there was a revolt in the orange juice aisle and people went, no, no, no. Why would you change something that's so iconic? Right? A bag of &Ms. It doesn't change. There's no need for any of those to change. And I think it would actually hurt them. And it's proven that it does if they were to change things. Now, again, that's talking about scalability and price point and everything else, but I'm a sucker for good packaging, man. I love it.
Don (19:03)
Yeah, yeah, they shot. Yeah, they shot themselves in the photos crazy.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, think well, well, packaging like the infrastructure, the industrial design of the thing itself versus, you know, the graphics that are on that thing, right? Like a can of Coke hasn't changed in forever. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, maybe we got the wide mouth can at some point, you know what I mean? Like our beers and things like that. But like an aluminum can is an aluminum can. But religiously, every two years, Coca-Cola will update their packaging. They change something graphically, right? They will tinker a little bit here and there. Right. So
Rob (19:29)
I'm a big fan of
Yeah.
Correct.
Yeah.
Don (19:59)
Lay's Doritos, all those Frida Lay brands, every two years on the clock, they will update their graphics, right? But the bag of chips hasn't really changed. Like the Mylar bag of chips hasn't changed, you know? And so, yeah, mean, packaging is a complicated thing because you have, you know, the brand experience you're talking about with your golf shoes, right? Where you've created a little moment in time where you're experiencing it versus, yeah, a bag of chips. Like, I don't want Lay's to re-engineer
Rob (20:11)
Yeah.
Don (20:29)
you know, the bag, I want to open that bag as fast as possible and get to the salty goodness. You know what mean? I don't need a brand experience, you know, with my Doritos. You know what I mean? Like, you know, so there's so many different avenues and paths of packaging, I guess, you know? So, yeah.
Rob (20:44)
Alright, question for you.
How do you feel about drinking bottled water out of an aluminum vessel?
So I can think of a couple of examples. Obviously, Liquid Death is the...
Don (21:01)
Yeah, yeah, liquid death
is probably the only time I've ever done it. You know, I mean, we. That's not true. Well, I was going to say that we worked on a client that had a spring water. Yeah, we had a spring water.
Rob (21:05)
That's not true. That's not true. Because we worked on a client.
with the screw top.
was the brand? don't even remember.
Don (21:16)
I mean, I worked on a client, it really was more of a pitch, wasn't it? Like a one-off project, it was a pitch and a one-off project. I don't know. I don't know. There was another company too that bottled something out of some spring in Idaho or someone and sent us all those samples. And we never really engaged with those guys either. I mean, I don't have a problem with it. We should stop drinking out of plastics. I mean, with all the microplastics in there.
Rob (21:19)
It was a pitch. Yeah, it was, it was a pitch.
We should.
Don (21:43)
You know, I mean,
Rob (21:43)
We should.
Don (21:44)
it's a known thing. It's I mean, you know, like, you know, yet, you know, bottled water at the grocery store, the cheapest version of that still comes in those shrink wrapped, you know, 18 bottles of water or whatever. Yeah. Distilled water from Publix, you know, that type of thing. Right. So, I mean, I don't have a problem with it. I just don't I don't think it's as readily available as maybe it probably should be. You know. You don't like drinking. Have you had a liquid death?
Rob (21:55)
Yeah, Crystal Springs.
Yeah, I have a problem with it. got a problem with it. No, I can't
stand it. And I'll tell you why.
Don (22:15)
Does it taste like metal to you?
Rob (22:17)
Well, it's not even the taste. is, I don't, to me in that case, since we're talking about packaging, the packaging outshines the product, right? It would be like opening a nice box of something and finding really shitty shoes inside. Like it's that, that's what happens in my brain. Like I can't, and I know we shouldn't drink out of plastic bottles. Like I get it. Love recycling. ⁓ But I like to drink water out of a plastic.
Don (22:28)
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Like it's just water. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob (22:46)
I mean, I don't, I use a recyclable bottle, so don't kill me, but I can't drink it out of any type of aluminum. just doesn't work.
Don (22:47)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, everybody
in my life would tell me that I don't drink enough water to begin with. So I should probably just start drinking water regardless as to what it comes out of.
Rob (23:00)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and to
me it's a, I think it's because it's a fuel, it's a necessity. You drink water because it's a necessity.
Don (23:08)
Okay, what about the
liquid death like sparkling, like your sparkling La Croix's and all that kind of stuff, right? Because that's coming out of an aluminum can, right?
Rob (23:13)
OK, great question. Great question,
because to me I file that under soda. I mentally file that under soda so.
Don (23:20)
Okay, okay, okay. Well, and they
do have different flavor profile. I know the Pamplemousse versus the lime versus what they're They're slightly, slightly different, but they are different. Yeah. Okay.
Rob (23:28)
Yeah, yeah. If it's carbonated, I'm all for actually,
actually, this is a great point. If it's carbonated, I hate drinking it out of plastic and I have to drink it out of aluminum. Like you ever buy ⁓ like a plastic bottle of Coca Cola? No one likes that. ⁓ So yeah, so I, but I file anything carbonated has to be in aluminum. Aluminium. Aluminium.
Don (23:43)
like a 20 ounce bottle of something. Yeah, it sucks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, aluminum as
Johnny Ive used to say. exactly. yeah, mean, packaging, know, I mean, is kind of like fashion to a certain extent. You know what I mean? It's a competitive, from a graphic perspective, it's a competitive shootout with who's on the aisle near you, right? When we were doing a lot of dog food packaging and a lot of, you know,
Rob (24:00)
That's right, aluminium.
Don (24:21)
work with Mars and whatnot, right? I mean, we'd go to their research center and we'd build entire Walmarts and look at the entire competitive set. And then do remember we used to make like 50 mockups of this tree and do the whole, right? Cause you want to see what you look like next to everybody else, right? And then you've got private label versus house brand versus, you know, like the package design shootout is such an interesting sort of conversation about.
Rob (24:27)
Crazy.
Crazy.
It is.
Don (24:47)
Is it minimalism? Do you have benefit statements on there? Do you purposely look industrial versus everybody? I mean, that's a whole nother crazy ball of wax. But I think what we've kind of been talking about a lot today really is more of that, the packaging on the experience of the brand, right? And kind of creating a brand experience, right? When you're, you know, activating a product that you bought, right? Which I think is pretty cool. yeah, I would agree with that.
Rob (25:11)
I think that's the trend and I hope I'm here for it. I'm absolutely
here for it.
Don (25:16)
I would agree with that. you've got a package or if you've got a product and you need to design that package, who would you call? Rob?
Rob (25:23)
I would call ⁓ the two guys that you're looking at and talking to, I would call these guys. We have a wealth, dare I say wealth, an abundance of experience from dog food.
Don (25:26)
⁓ Yeah. Okay.
We do. Yes. Yeah, I package design
is one of our core competencies for sure. You know, and I would say honestly, both on the ⁓ industrial side as well as the consumer retail side, you know, ⁓ you know, medical packaging, for example, a whole different ball of wax and things than like, hey, pick me up in the grocery store, pick me up in the grocery, you know, like that type of thing. Right. So yeah, yeah, I will never forget watching ⁓
Rob (25:41)
Absolutely.
That's right.
Yeah, dog treats, right?
Don (26:01)
I remember texting one of our clients at like nine o'clock at night, which you know for me, like 531, that's it. Like pencils down. We will fire up the design machine tomorrow morning, right? But I remember seeing stuff that we had designed in a TV show that I was watching and having a moment like, wow, oh my God, like.
Rob (26:08)
Yeah, do not try and text this guy after 5.30.
Mmm.
Don (26:24)
Can you rewind the TV, you know, like and taking a picture and like, hey, that's super fun. You know, I'll never forget that moment. That was a fun little, it was a fun little moment, you know, so package design is cool, man. It's a fun thing to work on. yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that works. I'm into it. All right. Well, yeah, we'll see everybody next time then.
Rob (26:27)
It's real.
It's real.
It's fun. We love it. We're good at it. Call us. How about that? All right, awesome.
for 163. All right, everybody, thanks.
Don (26:48)
Yeah. All right. See you guys.