Ep. 139 – Family-Owned Business Dynamics

Don (00:15) Episode 139. Nine. 139er. Niner? Did I hear a niner? Rob (00:22) is hearing. 139 have you Don (00:28) You we've done 139 of these have you ever gone back and listened to a single one of these not one not once You just you live it you experience it and live it and then you move on Who's the number one podcast it's Joe Rogan it's the number one podcaster, right? You the number one in the world or whatever or he's up there Rob (00:38) I live on this side of the microphone. I think so. He's got to be. Don (00:50) Does he ever go back and listen to it? He does a daily podcast, I think, right? Rob (00:54) think he does and it's long. think it's pretty long. It's a couple hours. Well, right. this, so that's what, Don (00:56) Let's call it talk radio. I mean he doesn't go back and listen to his podcasts every day. No. I mean he just he does his spiel and then moves on. Rob (01:07) I'm sure he has a team that does and gives him notes and I have Don (01:10) Gone back and listened to one, maybe two of these things. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No, one of them, think, uh, my wife wanted to listen with me, I think, or something like that. Or there was a reason why we were listening to, and then one of them, think when we first started, it was morbid curiosity of exactly, do I sound like what I think I sound like? And as all of us know, we don't, we don't sound like that at all. We don't. Rob (01:16) with all you could bear. What do I sound like? ⁓ Don (01:38) But in like that, like, um, do I say ums? What do I? You know, that type of thing. Just the vanity of listening to your own. You don't want to ruin it, huh? I'm OK with that. I'm OK with that. All right, speaking of saying. Rob (01:45) I don't want to I don't want to look in that. The the ⁓ I listen to Howard Stern as you know all the time speaking of talk radio and podcast Yeah, and that's like his whole thing is he he hates podcast. He's just mad. He's such a he's so mad at everything He's just mad that past podcasting ⁓ Don (02:05) the scene now. Is he, he, uh, he's not in his seventies. Yeah. Is in his seventies. Three days a week he does, right? Okay. And then it's best of and greatest hits and. I think that's been doing the shit since like the eighties. Rob (02:11) He does Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. But then there's also the, there's the Howard Stern wrap up show. So there's an after show. There's all kinds of ancillary. Don (02:26) He's got a library. fill the hours. Rob (02:28) yeah. Yeah. But I think his contract is up. Maybe it, I think it might be in this year in December. Don (02:34) Sooner than later, basically. then what? But there's no other, there's only one satellite radio, like there used to be two, and now there's only one. It's SiriusXM, they merged, right? Is there anything else on? I mean, obviously they have other shows, they have music, they have other... Sirius? Sirius, yeah. mean, that's all I listen to. They have hundreds of channels, But he wouldn't go... It's either, it's probably he either stays with them or he's done. Rob (02:37) I think this'll be it. Yeah. Don (03:02) Right? And there's no like, I'm starting my own. ⁓ Rob (03:05) He left terrestrial radio and banked on satellite and won. And he hates podcasts just because he's like, everybody can do that. He's like, and they all have amazing guests now. And he's a crotchety old man. He's like, I started this, damn it. So I think he'll be done. I think he'll be done. Don (03:11) And now he hates podcasts. Yeah, that's funny. I don't think Robin is still on the show. All right. And then all the Baba booey. Okay. The whole deal. Yeah. I'm going to David probably still listens to Howard. I'm sure he does. Rob (03:37) Sure, Dave. Yeah, I'm sure he does. Yeah, yeah, it's right up his ass. It's well, it's filth juxtaposed with interviews with the president. Don (03:42) yeah, for sure. Filth. Well, he is arguably the greatest interviewer ever, right? I mean, he's phenomenal. Rob (03:51) is absolutely phenomenal. you know, mean, it's not telling the world what they don't know, but he, I mean, he was, he was, he was an awful person and he totally had this just like through years of therapy and whatever else, like totally just sort of changed his sauna and his just whole like, I mean, he was fart man. I mean, he still does disgusting things. Don (04:15) He did that at like, he was like in full character at like the VMAs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last thing I saw, I know you celebrate his daily occurrence, I think the last thing I saw was the, is it HP? What he did, the Springsteen thing. He did the the televised, that was incredible. Rob (04:35) It was an amazing interview. Yeah, they sold it to HBO. Don (04:37) And I'm not even a big Springsteen guy. definitely recognize... Yeah, you appreciate... ...but you're not a big ...respect for the whole thing, but I'm not rocking the Springsteen albums every other day. But it was still a very captivating, interesting, thoughtful, dynamic interview. Well, he'll be like... Just like our podcast. Rob (04:45) appreciate it. He did it is what's great about when he I think his interview style is he'll ask a question like Okay, but you know Bruce talk to me about the song Rosalita Yeah, when you wrote Rosalita and then and then Bruce will say something like well, you know it started on the you know the piano I actually wrote the melody on the piano and they'll be like, okay Where were you which piano and where were you sitting? What did you do? And he'll just go down that and it's just very specific interesting. Yeah Questions. He's really good. Don (05:29) Yeah, it's not just the story. It's the full color narrative. Rob (05:33) Yeah, he's really good at getting people to anybody that's his whole thing is he gets people to be vulnerable Don (05:38) Yeah, he's like Barbara Streisand now. He makes people cry. was not the thing. Barbara Walters. That's true. That's true. Yes. Yes. Why did I think Streisand? I don't know. Cause a Barbara Barbara. That's why. don't know. Barbara Bush. Any other Barbas? There's lots of Barbas out there. Barbara Gordon. Rob (05:45) I Streisand You know, Barbara Cochran. ⁓ Don (06:01) Yeah, that's it. I'm the end of my barbers now. Yeah Speaking of barbers though. Actually, I don't know how to segue at all Rob (06:07) Barbara Bush, Anheuser-Busch, very own company. Don (06:11) There you go. Dun-dun-dun. Yes, today's topic we were going to chat about was working with family-owned companies, right? Of which I don't think a lot of people really think about it or realize it, but the vast majority of companies that power the economy and everything are family-owned companies. lot Anheuser-Busch now, they recently sold to the Belgians. like Bush is a family-owned company. Budweiser, that whole thing. I mean, we think Ford. to this day is still technically a family-owned company, even though they got tens of thousands of employees. So family-owned companies, probably more prevalent than you realize. working with family-owned companies presents their own interesting set of challenges and dynamics. And we have a bunch of family-owned companies. Rob (06:58) We work with a bunch of them and one ⁓ just, just popped into my head. Interesting local ⁓ family owned company is Orkin. And Orkin is massive. Yeah. Huge. And they were, they are owned by the Rollins family. Yep. Very prominent family here based here in Atlanta. mean, companies were billions upon billions of dollars. Absolutely. And this is sort of the extreme example, but It didn't go so well. You had the crazy uncle doing this and the dad and the grandfather and thing. They all ended up suing each other. And there's an amazing article if you get around to it in Forbes magazine about them and their and their family dynamic and everyone's suing everybody. Don (07:40) Yeah, add a bunch of money into a family dynamic of everybody. What could go wrong? Yeah, resentment galore. actually, our very first client we ever had, when I went off on my own, was a family-owned company. Yeah, worked with them for a number of years. Nice family. Great family. worked with. Rob (07:55) We did some good work for them. Great fam. Don (08:04) the father who started the company ⁓ and then his two kids obviously ended up ⁓ sort of running part of the ship as well. And then they ended up selling, of course, ⁓ because he wanted to retire and all that good stuff. it's interesting in regards to one of the benefits, obviously, is leapfrogging basically everybody in the way and just going straight to the sole decision maker. qualified to make those decisions or not. mean, when it's a family-owned company, a lot of times the president is guy who started the company. Rob (08:36) line at the dinner table. Don (08:38) We're going out to dinner. We're talking about this, that, and whatever. And it's like, doesn't really matter what anybody else's title is. I mean, it's straight to the decision maker. And the challenges there, obviously, are subjectivity as it relates to potentially strategic messaging or positioning. I don't like it. That type of, oh, I love this. It's this weird dynamic sometimes. Rob (09:03) I mean, it does. To what extent does work life bleed over into personal life and personal resentments bleed into the workplace and altogether? It's one big, sometimes happy family. Don (09:12) It's all together. Yeah, sometimes it's a big happy mess too. ⁓ But I think that there is an interesting advantage potentially of working with family-owned companies and having those great relationships where you can cut through the clutter and it's kind of entrepreneur to entrepreneur able to make some risky decisions, strategically risky decisions. Not like, hey, let's just go crazy for crazy sake, but let's be a little bit different than everybody else. Let's not do what everybody else is doing, because we didn't start our company doing what everybody else is doing. So there's some fun opportunities there to really push the envelope in regards to design, in regards to narrative. And I'd say, how long have we worked with those guys? want to like 13 years. 13 years. I a ton of awesome work with them over the years. Really helped. And work you can be proud of, and they're proud of, and they're excited about it, which is super cool. It's not just. Rob (10:02) 15 years like that. It's a long time. Don (10:14) the churn and burn of just, it's another ad for XYZ, whatever. Rob (10:18) Well, and also from an agency standpoint too, depending on the company, how big it is, who you're working with, all that kind of good stuff, it can be a tremendous benefit because you're a little bit more secure with your agency relationship. Again, depending on who you're working with over there. And especially if they start a little bit smaller and then you grow with them, you're kind of, dare I say, grandfathered in to a degree. speaking about positioning, we've got another, ⁓ there's another company that we work with. ⁓ Don (10:38) grow together. Rob (10:49) local company here in Atlanta. They're actually a chemical manufacturing company. I can say that. And they are on their third generation. Yeah, 1947. Founded in 1947. That's exciting. we've worked with them for, I mean, 20 years, 20 something years. Yeah. I mean, and there's been peaks and of the amount of work, depending on what they were doing. You know, the current ⁓ president of the company is 94 years old and still going into work every single day, if you can believe it. Don (11:32) I will not be coming in here every day when I'm 94 years old. That is promise I can make to every listener. I can't wait to be 94. Actually, I can. I can totally wait to be 94. But when I'm 94 years old, I'm not going to be in here doodling ads. No. Not going to happen. And I have to imagine you're not going to be either. Rob (11:48) Unless something's gone horribly wrong. It's not exactly in my plan. But the guy still comes in, and it's, again, that's obviously of a different generation where work is kind of everything, especially if it's your family owned company. think that they probably, there's a tendency for longevity in that type of situation. And so his son is now CEO and running the company as well. You know, it's interesting for them. They're a very sales driven organization and always have been. And so in a lot of the marketing efforts, we're actually working on a project for them right now. It's a, it's a sales recruitment kit. And the, they, I mean, the positioning is very much lead with, are a family owned company. And we will treat you like family and we are your work family, but we're your family family. And is all very, very family focused in their positioning. Don (12:43) Isn't there jam like, like this is the last job you'll ever need or something like that, right? It's kind of. Rob (12:48) Yeah, they of into the fact that a lot of their sales force has been there, you know, oil paintings on the wall, right? 40 years and longer. It's great. Yeah. And there's a reason that people, they back it up. Let's just say that there's a reason that people stay there forever because they are, and we've done interviews with them and interviews with some of the longer ⁓ tenured sales folks. And that comes up. They're like, they'll tell a story about, when I, Don (12:56) that man, I think that's good. Rob (13:14) didn't have enough money for a car when I first started. They helped me out with that and did it. So there's always great stories. to your point, it's a unique way to position, you know, either internally to try and help sell. I don't know that the consumers care as much that it's a family owned company. Maybe they do. Don (13:30) Well, think that regardless of what they do or what we do, chemical manufacturing or advertising, there is definitely something to be said for every industry being a trust-based relationship in business. That's right. And so I know who to call. know who to email. Which is the opposite of Xfinity or AT &T or- call anyone. Rob (13:46) relationship. Don (13:59) You know, like every time I call Bank of America, like it just, is what it is. It's a function of the process of these giant Goliath, whatever, versus, hey, you can still have a family owned company like Ford or like these guys or whatever. And you could have thousands of employees, but still very much be a family owned relationship trust-based business. ⁓ And I think as a recruitment tool, there's... I think it's good to get out ahead of that in front of things to be like, hey, this is who we are. This is how we are. That way, you're kind of weeding out the people that wouldn't fit in. You know what mean? That's like, I just want a fast track. I just want a launch point. I just want to go here and then move there. Well, that's not what they're looking for. That's not who they want to be. That's not who they are. So if you're just blatantly honest about authenticity of the vibe right from the get-go, that's going to work well internally. But I think that's going to work well externally as well. I would like to think that it matters to their clients. You know what mean? Rob (14:57) I think so too, because it is all relationship based, you're right, know, business agnostic. Don (15:04) I mean, at the end of the day, it's dollars and cents and profitability. It is a transactional relationship, just like we are, too. But there is something to be said for, hey, even though we're big, think family-owned company doesn't seem like it's a mom and pop shop. You know what I mean? could still, I don't know. mean, even SC Johnson Wax, right? Their whole thing was like a family. Yeah, that whole vibe versus, you know, lever. You know, that type of thing, right? Rob (15:36) ⁓ I wonder what it's got to be ⁓ just coming at it from a completely different angle. You know, if you are a family owned company and imagine you're the third generation or the fourth generation or fifth or whatever it is, it's got to be a lot of pressure to keep that, keep that legacy going. You know what I mean? Like, and it seems oftentimes that the pathway is, you know, ⁓ Don (15:55) Yeah, for sure. Rob (16:05) I'm generalizing, but in high school, yeah, I worked in the, in the where, you know, back in the plan or the warehouse or whatever for a couple of years. And then I graduated and went out and did my own thing for three or four years and, you know, gained experience out from under the umbrella of the family owned company. then, once I gained sort of valuable, you know, perspective from outside of it, then I maybe came back and rejoined. Don (16:28) Yeah, we have another client up in South Carolina, the plastic caps manufacturers, stuff like that. And that's their trajectory was, you know, I'm absolutely never working for the for my dad. And then it was like, OK, well, several, you know, it's like, OK, well, hey, I'm going back to the I'm going to help my dad run the ship and then I'm to take over and I'm going to keep it in the family. All the good stuff. ⁓ so I mean, that's an admirable thing as well. You know, I mean, we've talked about on the podcast before. I'm the son of an entrepreneur who's the son of an entrepreneur. 0.0 % chance I was ever going to take over my dad's business. And my grandparents thought for sure that my dad was going to take over. they absolutely did not it. They had two sons, and neither one of them wanted to take over that business. So I don't know. I kind of lean into it's that entrepreneurial spirit that kind of runs through the side of the family. But there is definitely something to be said for. business started a family owned company and then, there is no, I mean, that's where private equity and family funds and all these different things come in. And it's like, I'm 60 years old now. My kids don't want anything to do with my business. What do I do with this? So, ⁓ mean, Rob, what are we going to do with this business? I mean, there's always those questions, you know, but I think, you know, working with, I think it's fun, man. I think it's fun having family owned businesses. I mean, is it frustrating? Sure. You know what I mean? Whatever. You know what I mean? Rob (17:36) Yeah. Don (17:54) I mean, the variety that we have of like, startup that comes out of Georgia Tech, medical device, you know what mean? Gigantosaurus, Fortune 5 companies that we work with, family-owned, you know what mean? They all present different challenges, right? But it is kind of fun to, I think, integrate and work with family-owned businesses, you know? I mean, I say that also not being in the shoes of like, ⁓ my dad and the Rob (18:14) Yeah, I... Don (18:21) relationship and my sister or my this or but you know like there's no family dynamic in regards to like I'm taking over my dad's fighting me I want to modernize this and he doesn't want it you know like right we don't have to deal with any of that kind of stuff right so yeah it's weird family-owned kind of fun to think about so Rob (18:39) family owned and operated. The last little anecdote, I'm going back to the, to the Rollins family and the, and the Orkin situation. It's not just Orkin, they own Rollins trucking and all the other things. Anyway, one of the ways the company was structured was that there was, and this is all in the Forbes article, ⁓ was that the kids had to, in order to get money and unlock the trusts. they had to, I don't remember how they phrased it, but it was this ambiguous, they had to maintain fruitful pursuits. It was something like that. It was this crazy ambiguous language. It was basically, you can't just sit on your ass claws. you have to, you have to be do something. And so that was part of the problem was that it was this ambiguous. Don (19:29) You have to be a person. It sounds like the Fox News. know, succession that whole deal, right? It's like the whole thing. Oh, I put everything in the trust and now I want to get out of it and I don't want to do this. Rob (19:47) It is succession salacious. You should read the article. So then they sued because no, I'm doing fruitful endeavors because I'm doing this and that that that's, yeah, it's crazy, crazy, crazy. So the goods and bads of family business. That's really it. ⁓ Don (20:01) Do you have a family-owned business that needs advertising and design if so now? All right, I guess that wraps it up for the day it's it you know, it's a weird little kind of subsection of Business, but I think it's you know, it's it's prevalent and all around us We don't never even really think about it, know But working with the principles of organizations is always interesting and fun in those challenges therein. Where can those principles and interesting people find us mr. Rob? Rob (20:06) Hahaha Well, we've got a family of social pages. Anyway, yes, of course you can find us at mocktheagency.com or anywhere on the socials. We're not hard to find. Don (20:41) All right, we'll chat with you next time. Bye.